F-35 News

Assuntos em discussão: Força Aérea Brasileira, forças aéreas estrangeiras e aviação militar.

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F-35 News

#1 Mensagem por Penguin » Sex Mar 23, 2007 1:27 pm

Empresas australianas têm uma excelente perspectiva de faturar US$9bi nas próximas 3 décadas por seu envolvimento no programa F-35. Deve ocorrer o mesmo com os outros sócios tb. Isto ajuda a explicar a razão pela qual ninguém sai deste programa, além de ser o único caça stealth disponível para exportação nos próximos anos.

OBS: Quanto ao preço...

Lockheed will next month release an updated estimate of the plane's cost, and executives said it would be in the $US45 million to $US65 million range in 2002 dollars, with the Australian variant on the low end of the range. Air Vice-Marshal Harvey said the $US112 million price tag reported in the US included development costs, spares, equipment, support and facilities.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 77,00.html

$9bn bonanza in F-35 deal

* The fighter program will bring lucrative contracts to the local aerospace industry, writes Steve Creedy
* March 23, 2007

THE Australian aerospace industry stands to reap about $9 billion from its involvement in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program over the next three decades, according to the plane's US developer, Lockheed Martin.
Lockheed F-35 program manager Abhay Paranjape said Australian companies were already earmarked to receive work worth about $5 billion, provided they continued to provide best-value solutions for the project. This did not include work on the fighter's engines, and included no multiplier effect.

The US defence firm has moved from the traditional model of industrial offsets for plane orders to a system of competition between countries for the work on a global basis.

"The US and the other seven participant countries together are planning to procure more than 3000 aircraft," Mr Paranjape said at the Australian International Airshow this week.

"This is a best-value procurement program and it's not based on offsets, so Australia will be able to compete for that volume."

Mr Paranjape said Lockheed had laid out a plan defining when it would start procuring components, how many it would need and the estimated value of the work. He said $9 billion was a rounded total number of all the opportunities and values available to Australia.

Australian companies had already won contracts worth $100 million in the system development and demonstration phase of the program, he said.

Those developmental contracts were worth another $1.6 billion over the 3000 aircraft, as Lockheed began to gear up for production. "So you have $1.7 billion that is in hand if the companies continue to perform and they continue to provide the best value that they've proven they can right now."

The Lockheed executive said there were also strategic second sources that would not be subject to competition and had been selected based on the capabilities of Australian companies.

"For example, we're going to manufacture 700 vertical tails in Australia," he said. "That's an approved project in Australia. As long as Hawker de Havilland performs to our standards of quality and schedule and cost, we intend to manufacture those here.

"So, you take the strategic second sourcing opportunities and the existing work in hand, you add that together and that's $5 billion. In addition to that, there's about $4 billion in open competitions around the world targeted towards companies that already have a capability."

Mr Paranjape has been working with Australian companies for the past four or five years. He said he had been impressed by their innovation and the capabilities of the country's small-to-medium enterprises. "Australia does not have a market as large as the US or Europe," he said.

"These companies have learned not just to survive but to thrive in a small market that is export-oriented.

"They have learned how to deal with US companies or with European companies and be competitive. An example I will give is that I was stunned when I saw companies here in Australia providing machine parts and components to China.

"You see how much the Chinese are manufacturing around the world right now, but when it comes to some hi-tech machining and being competitive, there are Australian companies providing parts to companies in China."

Responding to criticism that Australian companies were not getting enough from the JSF program, Mr Paranjape agreed this was partly due to the fact that production phase had not yet kicked in.

"The other thing is, this is not offset," he said. "It is best-value competition. If I lose the competition I am going to be critical."

Lockheed F-35 program executive vice-president Tom Burbage said the aircraft's flight testing was on track after the inaugural flight in December. The aircraft was performing extremely well.

Australia plans to spend $11.5 billion buying up to 100 conventional take-off and landing F-35s and in December signed an undertaking to participate in the production, sustainment and follow-on development phase. It is due to commit to buying aircraft in 2008.

A Government Audit Office report on the program prompted reports of a cost blowout, but Air Vice-Marshal John Harvey, the RAAF's program manager for new air combat capability, said the report was "consistent with prices we have been discussing in the past".

Lockheed will next month release an updated estimate of the plane's cost, and executives said it would be in the $US45 million to $US65 million range in 2002 dollars, with the Australian variant on the low end of the range. Air Vice-Marshal Harvey said the $US112 million price tag reported in the US included development costs, spares, equipment, support and facilities.

"If you take all those factors out and get back to an average unit fly-away costs for the CTOL variant, which we will be buying, it gets down to about $47 million in US 2002 dollars," he said. That was consistent with reports over a long time.


The JSF remained the right choice for Australia's future air combat requirements because it represented the optimal mix of capability and cost, he said.

Alternatives to the JSF, such as extending the life of the F-111, did not make such a solid business case and the only other fifth generation fighter, the F-22 Raptor, could not perform the range of tasks required by Australia, he said.

The JSF could carry a wider range of weapons, bigger weapons and had a wider array of sensors than the F-22A. "The F-22A also comes at about twice the cost of JSF," he said.

Australia expects to acquire the first aircraft in 2013 and should have the first squadron ready for deployment in 2015, with full capability in 2018.




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#2 Mensagem por Sintra » Sex Mar 23, 2007 2:17 pm

O pequeno problema do preço do F35 é que o mais recente valor que o GAO Norte Americano fez sair (menos de uma semana) já atira para MAIS de 135 milhões de dólares o avião. E o GAO tem muitissimo mais credibilidade que a Lock Mart.
E ainda não saiu do solo um protótipo semelhante ao caça final... Temos mais uma década antes do IOC em que os valores podem subir, e tendo em conta as experiências da Lock Mart é GARANTIDO que o preço vai inflacionar (F22, C130J, o mais recente LCS que no espaço de 12 meses DUPLICOU o preço para mais de 420 milhões de dólares)...
À Velocidade a que vai, os medos Australianos de o F35 vir a custar o mesmo ou mais que o F22 podem vir a tornar-se realidade... Pelo futuro da Força Aérea do meu país, espero bem que não.




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#3 Mensagem por Einsamkeit » Sex Mar 23, 2007 2:36 pm

Achas que portugal vai de F-35?

Ainda prefiro ver um EF-2000PT

8-]




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#4 Mensagem por Degan » Sex Mar 23, 2007 2:38 pm

Lo que dice el GAO es exclusivamente tomando en concideración "parte" de los F-35 de la USAF/US Navy....




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#5 Mensagem por Penguin » Sex Mar 23, 2007 5:53 pm

Apresentação muito interessante da USAF:

PROGRAM BRIEF - F-35 Lightning II (26/09/2006)

http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/documents/AFA%20Conf%20-%20JSF%20Program%20Brief%20-%2026%20Sept%2006.pdf




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#6 Mensagem por Sintra » Sex Mar 23, 2007 6:23 pm

Degan escreveu:Lo que dice el GAO es exclusivamente tomando en concideración "parte" de los F-35 de la USAF/US Navy....


Exactamente

E tendo em conta precisamente isso, é assustador o que diabos acontecerá após os primeiros LRIP, lá para 2015, se o passado recente dessa empresa for mantido e se as predições do GAO vierem a tornar-se humildes por comparação com o que acontecerá na realidade (precisamente o caso do F22) isto vai ser uma hecatombe. Se a mania de inflacionar 10% ao ano o valor dos seus produtos da Lock Mart continuar, ainda vamos ver F35 a preços superiores ao F22...
Leiam o relatório com atenção e fiquem de cabelos em pé, mas o mais assustador é ler os relatórios do GAO acerca dos dois produtos mais recentes (tirando o F35) da Lock Mart (o avião F22 e o navio LCS) na mesma altura de desenvolvimento em que o F35 se encontra e depois ver o que aconteceu. Se o crescimento de custos do F35 se aproximar ao daqueles dois projectos, vai ser um desastre para a USAF e para toda a gente que estiver envolvida no projecto. A esta velocidade é perfeitamente possivel imaginar-se um "unit cost production" de 150 milhões de dólares por caça em 2015. Basta que repitam as asneiras que efectuaram com o F22, corte do nº de aviões, sistemas muitissimo mais caros do que inicialmente se previa, etc, etc, ou pior ainda o navio LCS que duplicou de preço num ANO.
Na ultima década já li demasiados relatórios do GAO para saber que a Lei de "Murphy" aplica-se constantemente, "tudo o que pode correr mal, vai correr AINDA PIOR"... Estou com um ataque de depressão aguda. :(


Einsamkeit escreveu:Achas que portugal vai de F-35?

Ainda prefiro ver um EF-2000PT


Sim, acho. É o que a FAP quer, é o substituto natural do Viper e se a Lock Mart não fizer asneira é um "winner". Sou forçado a concordar com o Patton quando este diz que o aparelho Norte Americano é muito mais versátil que um "Eurocanard".
Por isso é que estou preocupadissimo com as constantes alterações nos valores. Ainda não voou um avião representativo do caça final e isto já vai desta maneira. Se nos primeiros LRIP aquilo vai aos 135 milhões de dólares, os aviões de produção podem atingir valores absolutamente escabrosos, basta para isso que o próximo Presindente (Democrata) dos EUA decida que o Orçamento da Defesa Americano é completamente despropositado e mande cortar, a primeira vitima vai ser precisamente o Lightning. A Lock Mart ano, após ano, tem-se enganado (para muito baixo) nos valores que o contribuinte Americano tem de pagar pelos seus produtos, é constante.
Se assim for, vamos ver a FAPa voar com Viper´s até 2000 e muitoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... A FAP andava a apontar para uma substituição lá para 2020 (calculo que o nosso ministro da Defesa ou não saiba disso, ou não concorde, ou prefira não se preocupar com o assunto).
Sinceramente, por uma vez estou à espera que as coisas corram bem para a Lock Mart. :?




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#7 Mensagem por Einsamkeit » Sex Mar 23, 2007 8:51 pm

Sei que sao os Substitutos naturais do Viper, mas caso num negocio lucrativo com Franca ou Eads? Portugal nao aceitaria?

Ou o caso do Eurofighter ser operado por Espanha influencia alguma coisa?

Espero que nao, Pois o BPE parece que vai ficar cheio de F-35

8-]




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#8 Mensagem por old » Sáb Mar 24, 2007 7:16 am

Einsamkeit escreveu:Sei que sao os Substitutos naturais do Viper, mas caso num negocio lucrativo com Franca ou Eads? Portugal nao aceitaria?

Ou o caso do Eurofighter ser operado por Espanha influencia alguma coisa?

Espero que nao, Pois o BPE parece que vai ficar cheio de F-35

8-]


Pues quiza labores de mantenimiento, actualizaciones, integracion etc etc puedamn llevarse de forma conjunta reduciendo asi costes, pero nunca se sabe. Con Portuagal modernizando sus F16 y Espana recibiendo sus Ef y modernizando sus F18 aun quedan unos años para hablar de F35..
Lo unico claro son los F35 para el BpE y sustituto de PdA y que no seran muchos (18/24 aprox)

Lo que esta claro es que como continue subiendo el precio de F35 muchos paises van a seguir reduciendo sus pedidos, tal cual ya han echo Australia u Holanda que operaran con solo 80 F35(+-) cada uno. Y otros que tengan que reemplazar flotas cercanas a las 100 unidades (Alemania o España) quiza se lo piensen mucho.

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#9 Mensagem por Penguin » Ter Abr 03, 2007 8:40 pm

Interessante artigo que tras alguma luz sobre as capacidades do F-35, segundo pilotos de provas envolvidos no programa.


January 15, 2007 8:30 AM

More Fighter than Pilot
Meet the new F-35 Lightning II.

By W. Thomas Smith Jr.

The F-35 is not the first fighter ever tested by Beesley, a 56-year-old former Air Force officer and grandfather of six. He also is the second man in the world to fly the Air Force’s latest air supremacy fighter, the F-22 Raptor (designed to replace the F-15 Eagle). And he was one of the first to fly the now aging F-117 Nighthawk (the world’s “first operational stealth aircraft”).

Like the Raptor and the Nighthawk, the F-35 is a stealth fighter. But it is the first-ever aircraft designed to replace four existing aircraft from three services. In full production, it will replace currently operational fighters like the Air Force’s F-16 Fighting Falcon and the “tank killing” A-10 Thunderbolt, the Navy and Marine Corps’ F-18 Hornet, and the Marines’ AV-8 Harrier “jump jet.”

On Wednesday afternoon, a few hours after testing the F-35, Beesley explained why the new nine-G, Mach 1.6 (just over 1,200 miles per hour) fighter is unlike anything ever flown.

“I’ve never felt any airplane that had better performance coming off the ground,” Beesley tells National Review Online. “I had a very good idea of how I would climb out, but because the single Pratt and Whitney F135 engine generates more thrust than any fighter engine ever built. I had to keep pulling the nose up. I was thinking, ‘this is interesting.’”

MORE FIGHTING THAN FLYING
In September, I talked with with Marine Lt. Col. Arthur “Turbo” Tomassetti. Tomassetti, who had flown the X-35 (the stripped-down experimental version of what would evolve into the current F-35) explained that, “Mission stuff — killing things and blowing things up — should be what is most challenging. You don’t need to complicate a pilot’s life by making the hardest part of his combat mission getting back aboard ship.”

According to Tomassetti, the fighter pilot needs to be more fighter than pilot.

That’s exactly what the F-35 is designed to do.

“What people do best in airplanes is think,” says Beesley. “So you need to make the airplane very natural and intuitive to fly, and that’s what Turbo was talking about when he said turning the man into more of a fighter. The best fighting we do is with our minds, and we can do that more effectively if we are spending less time flying.”

He adds, “I grew up flying F-4s, and you had to spend a lot of time thinking about how to fly that airplane or it would bite you. That takes away time from what you need to be focusing on,” which of course is fighting.

Beesley first took the F-35 up on its maiden flight in mid-December. He tested her a second time on Monday, January 8, pushing her up to 20,000. Then on Wednesday morning, he took her 3,000 feet higher.

“We open the envelope a little more each time,” he says. “This morning, I went up high at almost point-eight mach, did some air data work, looked at the handling and stability qualities, did some other things and then came home.”

THREE IN ONE
Several things make the F-35 unique.

First, it is being produced in three variants, which is why it will replace the four currently operational jets. The variants include:

•A CTOL (conventional takeoff-and-landing), for the Air Force.
•A STOVL (short takeoff-vertical landing), for the Marine Corps.
•A carrier takeoff-and-landing, for the Navy.

Second, because it is basically designed as a family of three warplanes — and 70-80 percent of each variant is common to the other two — it is said by Lockheed officials to be far more cost effective throughout the life of the program, about 30-plus years.

One jet in three versions means one assembly line instead of three.

Still, the jets aren’t cheap: About $45 million to $60 million per copy, with the CTOL fighter on the low end, and the more expensive models being the increased bells-and-whistles STOVL and carrier jets.

The third factor is performance.

“This is the plane that — because of its stealth — will be able to go in and kick down the door on the first day of a war,” says Beesley. “If you look at last three wars, the first wave aircraft were the stealthy airplanes. Now we are coming into an era where rather than 50 stealthy airplanes, like the F-117; commanders of the future might have 500 to 1,000 to choose from.”

KILLING MULTIPLE TARGETS
In addition to stealth, speed, and maneuverability; the F-35 has increased range, and it carries a greater payload than the legacy fighters it is replacing (also a greater payload capability than the new F-22). It is able to simultaneously fight at least eight enemy planes, and, at the same time, lock-on to as many as 16 enemy ground targets. And it can track literally hundreds of targets for 360 degrees and at tracking distances that — though classified — far exceed the distances of the legacy jets.

The F-35 was officially christened the Lightning II last summer. The first Lightning was the old P-38 Lightning, also a Lockheed-built airplane, of World War II fame. That Lightning shot down more enemy planes (including the plane transporting Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto over the Solomons) than any other U.S. warplane in the Pacific theater.

Lockheed Martin plans to begin production of its F-35 later this year. Another 2,781 F-35’s are currently scheduled to be built over the next three decades. Most of those will be built for the U.S. and the United Kingdom (138 planned for the U.K.’s Royal Navy and Air Force). That number does not include airplanes for an additional seven partnering nations — Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, and Turkey — that have a vested interest in the F-35. If all partnering nations purchase F-35s, the number could increase to more than 4,500.

Beesley is slated to ride the Lightning II for a fourth time, Tuesday.

— A former U.S. Marine infantry leader, W. Thomas Smith Jr. writes about military åissues and has covered conflict in the Balkans and on the West Bank. He is the author of six books, and his articles appear in a variety of publications



http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mz ... WZjZjhiMmI




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#10 Mensagem por Morcego » Qui Abr 05, 2007 10:19 am

Acabei de ler no

Http://sistemadearmas.sites.uol.com.br/not/notmar07.html


A Boeing está oferecendo o F-15E+ Super Eagle para cobrir possíveis atrasos nas entregas do F-35 JSF para a USAF. O preço de US$59 milhões é praticamente igual aos US$ 60 milhões do F-35. As armas serão bem variadas como a LDAM, Brimstone, HSSW e SDB e os sensores incluem FLIR de terceira geração e IRST. Entre os sistemas defensivos o Super Eagle será equipado com o despistador rebocado ALE-50 e com MAWS AAR-57.


MINHA PERGUNTA É, O PREÇO DO F-35 É 60 MILHÕES???




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#11 Mensagem por Sintra » Qui Abr 05, 2007 10:28 am

morcego escreveu:Acabei de ler no

Http://sistemadearmas.sites.uol.com.br/not/notmar07.html


A Boeing está oferecendo o F-15E+ Super Eagle para cobrir possíveis atrasos nas entregas do F-35 JSF para a USAF. O preço de US$59 milhões é praticamente igual aos US$ 60 milhões do F-35. As armas serão bem variadas como a LDAM, Brimstone, HSSW e SDB e os sensores incluem FLIR de terceira geração e IRST. Entre os sistemas defensivos o Super Eagle será equipado com o despistador rebocado ALE-50 e com MAWS AAR-57.


MINHA PERGUNTA É, O PREÇO DO F-35 É 60 MILHÕES???


Não... http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07415.pdf
E o preço de 59 milhões para cada Strike Eagle corresponde ao primeiro lote entregue em... 1988...
O Sistema de armas é um muito bom site, mas de vez em quando diz cada disparate...




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#12 Mensagem por Einsamkeit » Sáb Abr 07, 2007 7:52 pm

Pelo custo que vai chegar, vai de F-35 a F-350

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:




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#13 Mensagem por zela » Qua Abr 11, 2007 11:34 pm

Picture: JSF helmet mounted display revealed
By Graham Warwick

Lockheed Martin has begun flying the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter with the helmet-mounted display (HMD) system that will be the primary source of flight information for pilots of the stealthy combat aircraft.

Developed by Vision Systems International (VSI), the HMD was used by chief test pilot Jon Beesley for the first time last week, on the 10th test flight of the F-35. Previous sorties were flown using only head-down instruments as the F-35 is the first fighter in decades to fly without head-up display (HUD).

The HMD provides a “virtual HUD” capability, says VSI, presenting flight symbology as well as displaying day and night imagery from the F-35’s 360° distributed-aperture infrared sensor and electro-optical targeting sensor.


Imagem


Replacing the HUD with a helmet-mounted display requires precise head tracking and low-latency graphics processing, says VSI, the joint venture between Elbit Systems’ company EFW and Rockwell Collins that produces the Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System used in current US fighters.

Developing the JSF HMD has presented tough challenges, particularly clearing the helmet-mounted optics for safe ejection at speeds up to 450kt (830km/h). VSI says the HMD demonstrated structural integrity up to 600kt in tests leading to flight certification.


Fonte: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/04/11/213198/picture-jsf-helmet-mounted-display-revealed.html




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#14 Mensagem por Bolovo » Qua Abr 11, 2007 11:49 pm

Caraleo! Parece um astronauta! É uma camada de ouro sobre o visor? :o

Esses americanos.... 8-]




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#15 Mensagem por Tu160bomber » Qui Abr 12, 2007 5:18 am

Parece o Master Chief do HAlo :D da a impressao que e de carbono :?




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